Red Herring Arguments - Revision history

Admin: /* Voice of God Recording's basic argument */

2024-10-03T15:21:19Z

Voice of God Recording's basic argument

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	==Voice of God Recording's basic argument==		==Voice of God Recording's basic argument==

	'''Voice of God Recordings''' ("VoGR"), is an entity led by William Branham's sons and dedicated to sharing his sermons. In a publication called '''Catch the Vision'''(2012, Volume 2), they explain away the failures in William Branham's prophecies without discussing the facts. Their argument flows as follows:		'''Voice of God Recordings''' ("VoGR"), is an entity led by William Branham's sons and dedicated to sharing his sermons. In a publication called '''Catch the Vision''' (2012, Volume 2), they explain away the failures in William Branham's prophecies without discussing the facts. Their argument flows as follows:

	#William Branham's Message has mistakes in it.		#William Branham's Message has mistakes in it.

Admin: Admin moved page Failed Prophecies to Red Herring Arguments

2022-02-14T03:32:45Z

Admin moved page Failed Prophecies to Red Herring Arguments

← Older revision	Revision as of 03:32, 14 February 2022
(No difference)

Admin at 21:01, 31 December 2021

2021-12-31T21:01:16Z

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	{{Top of Page}}		{{Top of Page}}
	~~{{Failed Visions}}~~
	~~This article examines the response of people in the message to the failed visions.~~

	~~=Message Ministers use of the red herring=~~

	<youtube>http://youtu.be/WjjTMBNDU2M</youtube>		<youtube>http://youtu.be/WjjTMBNDU2M</youtube>

	~~<br>~~		This article examines the response of people in the message to the failed visions.

	=The use of red herring arguments by message followers=		=The use of red herring arguments by message followers=
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	R. A. Torrey, Difficulties in the Bible: Alleged Errors and Contradictions (Willow Grove: Woodlawn Electronic Publishing, 1998).		R. A. Torrey, Difficulties in the Bible: Alleged Errors and Contradictions (Willow Grove: Woodlawn Electronic Publishing, 1998).

			{{Failed Visions}}

	{{Bottom of Page}}		{{Bottom of Page}}

Admin at 15:22, 28 December 2021

2021-12-28T15:22:54Z

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	[[Category:Critical analysis of William Branham‏‎]]		[[Category:Critical analysis of William Branham‏‎]]
	[[Category:The Message]]		[[Category:The Message]]
	[[Category:Prophecies and Visions]]		[[Category:Prophecies and Visions of William Branham‏‎]]
	[[Category:~~Prophecies~~]]		[[Category: 1933 Visions]]
	~~[[Category:Supernatural vindication‏]]‎~~
	[[Category:Honesty and Credibility]]		[[Category:Honesty and Credibility]]

Admin at 01:15, 20 April 2019

2019-04-20T01:15:56Z

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	=Message Ministers use of the red herring=		=Message Ministers use of the red herring=

	<~~mediaplayer~~>http://youtu.be/WjjTMBNDU2M</~~mediaplayer~~>		<youtube>http://youtu.be/WjjTMBNDU2M</youtube>

	<br>		<br>

Admin: /* Differences in Paul's Conversion Experiences */

2018-03-21T14:01:25Z

Differences in Paul's Conversion Experiences

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	This is very clear in a modern English like the NASB, where VoGr's problem with the Bible suddenly disappears:		This is very clear in a modern English like the NASB, where VoGr's problem with the Bible suddenly disappears:

	Acts 9:7 (NASB95) - ''The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.''		:Acts 9:7 (NASB95) - ''The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.''

	Acts 22:9 (NASB95) - ''And those who were with me saw the light, to be sure, but did not understand the voice of the One who was speaking to me.''		:Acts 22:9 (NASB95) - ''And those who were with me saw the light, to be sure, but did not understand the voice of the One who was speaking to me.''

			What Voice of God and Joseph Branham have done is to exaggerate the differences in the accounts of Paul's conversion experience. They are throwing the Bible under the bus in an attempt to get message followers to overlook the problems with William Branham's failed visions and lack of credibility.

	===Abranham's prophecy was also wrong===		===Abranham's prophecy was also wrong===

Admin: /* The message to Elijah was not a prophecy, it was a command */

2018-01-11T03:44:12Z

The message to Elijah was not a prophecy, it was a command

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	:''Jehu got up and went into the house. Then the prophet poured the oil on Jehu’s head and declared, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: ‘I anoint you king over the LORD’s people Israel. You are to destroy the house of Ahab your master, and I will avenge the blood of my servants the prophets and the blood of all the LORD’s servants shed by Jezebel. The whole house of Ahab will perish. I will cut off from Ahab every last male in Israel—slave or free.<ref>The New International Version (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2011), 2 Ki 9:6–8.</ref>		:''Jehu got up and went into the house. Then the prophet poured the oil on Jehu’s head and declared, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: ‘I anoint you king over the LORD’s people Israel. You are to destroy the house of Ahab your master, and I will avenge the blood of my servants the prophets and the blood of all the LORD’s servants shed by Jezebel. The whole house of Ahab will perish. I will cut off from Ahab every last male in Israel—slave or free.<ref>The New International Version (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2011), 2 Ki 9:6–8.</ref>

	~~Unlike~~ William Branham, who pointed to himself and said:		This is completely unlike William Branham, who pointed to himself and said:

	:''Remember it’s on tape here, I seen '''a great huge brown bear'''. That might be a Kodiak and it wouldn’t have worked down there in Canada, ’cause they’re not there, you see. But wherever it will be, it’ll be. It will be, that’s '''THUS SAITH THE LORD'''. It will be.<ref>William Branham, 62-0506 - Possessing All Things, para. 11</ref>		:''Remember it’s on tape here, I seen '''a great huge brown bear'''. That might be a Kodiak and it wouldn’t have worked down there in Canada, ’cause they’re not there, you see. But wherever it will be, it’ll be. It will be, that’s '''THUS SAITH THE LORD'''. It will be.<ref>William Branham, 62-0506 - Possessing All Things, para. 11</ref>

Admin: /* The message to Elijah was not a prophecy, it was a command */

2018-01-11T03:43:41Z

The message to Elijah was not a prophecy, it was a command

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	God delayed the judgment on Ahab's house and Jehu was eventually anointed King of Israel in 2 Kings 9:		God delayed the judgment on Ahab's house and Jehu was eventually anointed King of Israel in 2 Kings 9:

	:''Jehu got up and went into the house. Then the prophet poured the oil on Jehu’s head and declared, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: ‘I anoint you king over the LORD’s people Israel. You are to destroy the house of Ahab your master, and I will avenge the blood of my servants the prophets and the blood of all the LORD’s servants shed by Jezebel. The whole house of Ahab will perish. I will cut off from Ahab every last male in Israel—slave or free.<ref>The New International Version (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2011), 2 Ki 9:6–8.<\ref>		:''Jehu got up and went into the house. Then the prophet poured the oil on Jehu’s head and declared, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: ‘I anoint you king over the LORD’s people Israel. You are to destroy the house of Ahab your master, and I will avenge the blood of my servants the prophets and the blood of all the LORD’s servants shed by Jezebel. The whole house of Ahab will perish. I will cut off from Ahab every last male in Israel—slave or free.<ref>The New International Version (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2011), 2 Ki 9:6–8.</ref>

	Unlike William Branham, who pointed to himself and said:		Unlike William Branham, who pointed to himself and said:

Admin: /* Pastor Wisper Gwena's use of the red herring */

2018-01-11T03:43:15Z

Pastor Wisper Gwena's use of the red herring

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	According to Pastor Gwena, "''we have a scriptural precedent of things said to a prophet which a prophet does not fulfill and yet we still accept him to be a prophet''." This is taken as a reason to accept William Branham's status as a prophet regardless of his failed visions. It is taken as a reason to ignore Deuteronomy 18:20-22.		According to Pastor Gwena, "''we have a scriptural precedent of things said to a prophet which a prophet does not fulfill and yet we still accept him to be a prophet''." This is taken as a reason to accept William Branham's status as a prophet regardless of his failed visions. It is taken as a reason to ignore Deuteronomy 18:20-22.

	However, there are two good explanations for the failure of Elijah to anoint Jehu.		The problem with this explanation is that it is done without a true knowledge of the scripture. However, there are two good explanations for the failure of Elijah to anoint Jehu.

	===Ahab repented===		===Ahab repented===
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	:''And it came to pass, when Ahab heard those words, that he rent his clothes, and put sackcloth upon his flesh, and fasted, and lay in sackcloth, and went softly. 28 And the word of the LORD came to Elijah the Tishbite, saying, 29 Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son’s days will I bring the evil upon his house.<ref>The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), 1 Ki 21:27–29.</ref>		:''And it came to pass, when Ahab heard those words, that he rent his clothes, and put sackcloth upon his flesh, and fasted, and lay in sackcloth, and went softly. 28 And the word of the LORD came to Elijah the Tishbite, saying, 29 Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son’s days will I bring the evil upon his house.<ref>The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), 1 Ki 21:27–29.</ref>

	God ~~told~~ Jeremiah:		Ahab's repentence brought about a delay in God's judgment. We find this principle outlined in Jeremiah 18:

	:''At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it.''<ref>Jeremiah 18:7–8 (NASB95)</ref>		:''At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it.''<ref>Jeremiah 18:7–8 (NASB95)</ref>

	So God has clearly outlined the conditions under which a ~~"Thus Saith The Lord"~~ prophecy will not come to pass. But those conditions do not apply to ANY of William Branham's failed ~~prophesies~~.		So God has clearly outlined the conditions under which a prophecy will not come to pass. But those conditions do not apply to ANY of William Branham's failed prophecies.

			===The message to Elijah was not a prophecy, it was a command===

			Elijah did not see a vision. From scripture, we read that God audibly spoke to Elijah and told him what he was to do.

			Elijah did not say "Thus Saith The Lord, I will anoint Jehu." God told Elijah what to he was to do. And then, as a result of Ahab's repentence, he did not require Elijah's obedience.

			God delayed the judgment on Ahab's house and Jehu was eventually anointed King of Israel in 2 Kings 9:

			:''Jehu got up and went into the house. Then the prophet poured the oil on Jehu’s head and declared, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: ‘I anoint you king over the LORD’s people Israel. You are to destroy the house of Ahab your master, and I will avenge the blood of my servants the prophets and the blood of all the LORD’s servants shed by Jezebel. The whole house of Ahab will perish. I will cut off from Ahab every last male in Israel—slave or free.<ref>The New International Version (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2011), 2 Ki 9:6–8.<\ref>

			Unlike William Branham, who pointed to himself and said:

			:''Remember it’s on tape here, I seen '''a great huge brown bear'''. That might be a Kodiak and it wouldn’t have worked down there in Canada, ’cause they’re not there, you see. But wherever it will be, it’ll be. It will be, that’s '''THUS SAITH THE LORD'''. It will be.<ref>William Branham, 62-0506 - Possessing All Things, para. 11</ref>

			:''Now, I’m going back into the country, that you might know, when I come back next year. '''I’m going to get a brown bear that’s almost twice that size'''. You see if it’s right or not. I seen it. When we was standing, put my hands on his haunches laying on the ground, like that. And I could put my hands on his hips like that, and him laying down. Now, you find out if that’s right or not. There’s a whole lot to that. But I just happened to think, I’m supposed to be teaching Sunday school. See? Oh, friends. You all see these little visions around here? No wonder you minister brothers sometimes get suspicious. “Well, it might be mental telepathy. It might be psychology.” Show me somewhere else it’s going on. What about these great psychologists, telepathists? They guess. It sometimes happens, sometimes it never. And it’s this, that, or the other. But God’s perfect and '''never fails'''.<ref>William Branham, 62-0610M - Presuming, para.341</ref>

			While it is clear why Elijah did not fulfill the command of the Lord, there is no valid scriptural reason for William Branham's failed vision. And while Pastor Gwena states that he has "biblical precedents" to explain the failed brown bear vision, the red herring arguments of Abraham and Elijah simply aren't valid. They are red herrings.

	=Why a Comparison to William Branham's Failed Prophecies is a Smokescreen=		=Why a Comparison to William Branham's Failed Prophecies is a Smokescreen=

Admin: /* Ahab repented */

2018-01-11T03:23:56Z

Ahab repented

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	:''And it came to pass, when Ahab heard those words, that he rent his clothes, and put sackcloth upon his flesh, and fasted, and lay in sackcloth, and went softly. 28 And the word of the LORD came to Elijah the Tishbite, saying, 29 Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son’s days will I bring the evil upon his house.<ref>The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), 1 Ki 21:27–29.</ref>		:''And it came to pass, when Ahab heard those words, that he rent his clothes, and put sackcloth upon his flesh, and fasted, and lay in sackcloth, and went softly. 28 And the word of the LORD came to Elijah the Tishbite, saying, 29 Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son’s days will I bring the evil upon his house.<ref>The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), 1 Ki 21:27–29.</ref>

			God told Jeremiah:

			:''At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it.''<ref>Jeremiah 18:7–8 (NASB95)</ref>

			So God has clearly outlined the conditions under which a "Thus Saith The Lord" prophecy will not come to pass. But those conditions do not apply to ANY of William Branham's failed prophesies.

	=Why a Comparison to William Branham's Failed Prophecies is a Smokescreen=		=Why a Comparison to William Branham's Failed Prophecies is a Smokescreen=